WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

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WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby 45&bald » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:56 pm

Guys I am seeking best advice on a conundrum that I need to solve, I am sure this would of been discussed in the past, all opinions are sought on the following.
Our 100 series cruiser is about to be connected to our brand new Concept Icon Blitz 19ft family van, van has a ball weight of 160kg and a grosse of 2.6 ton . As a dual axle van, should I be fitting "sway bars or a WDH" , or is it all unneccessary ?? or should I consider fitting airbags to my rear springs which is essentially going to balance the car the same as a "WDh" ?? Does a WDH offer any valid assistance to anti sway? Or do only dedicated sway bars offer the "real deal"
I really need to cover all bases ASAP, our first trip is looming and due to work commitments am going to be hitting the road "blind" as we won't have time to do a "round the corner trip"

Thanks
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Re: WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby nswoutback » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:05 pm

Perhaps go to "view active posts"

There are about four threads running - in the last 24 hours which are very closely related to the questions you ask
Andrew

ajp ... Step one, collect the facts
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Re: WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby Silver Gypsies » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:06 pm

Hi 45&bald

Welcome, lots of good info on the forum.

You will need a wdh, and after reading the threads on it, you will see why.

Air bags can always be added after, but they do not take the place of a wdh.

I see your Land cruiser doesn't have a turbo. You might find putting a turbo on the lc will help with towing your new van.

Take your time, you will know what you need after a few trips and talking to all the experts you meet along the way.

Safe travels and enjoy the adventure.

Dave
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Re: WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby Cruiserman » Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:28 pm

There have been two other threads on the same subject in the last 24 hours.

See here-
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29885

And here-
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29915

Edit: Here is another. It started off on a slightly different topic, but moved to this one during the discussion. -
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29890
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Re: WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby ozjohn » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:18 am

45&bald
Forget ant ball weight figure that maybe stamped on the vans VIN Plate as it have no relevance to the realities of towing a loaded van.
The important ball weight is when the van is fully loaded, and it will need substantially higher than the 160Kg you posted.
Cheers, ozjohn.
ACC V00118 - Retired Engineer, Ex Park Owner & Caravan Consultant.
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Re: WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby tom_cruiser_r69 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:43 am

Airbags are not designed specifically for towing a caravan. They have everything to do with the weight in the back of your vehicle when you are not towing. I have an 80 Series onto which I fitted airbags to assist the springs with the load in the back. Once this is sorted and the vehicle is level, I hitch the caravan on and then use my WDH to level the combination of van and vehicle.

I don't use sway bars so I can't comment on their effectiveness.

Tom
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Re: WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby marpete » Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:48 am

On my previous 100 Series TD Cruiser I installed Firestone airbags ( inside the coils ) to compensate for the weight in the back and on the roofrack, and I used an Eazlift WDH for the reasons discussed many times on this forum. I have the same arrangement in my 200 Series Cruiser, providing excellent stability on the road, although I disconnect the WDH in any situation involving sudden changes in road incline.
Off topic, but I think your van is going to make your naturally aspirated 100 Series puff a bit......I fitted a turbo, intercooler and 3" exhaust to my first naturally aspirated 100 Series which made a world of difference.......if you move down this path, have it fitted by an expert using a 4WD dyno and make sure the Exhaust gas Temp (EGT) does not exceed about 475 C under full engine load.
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Re: WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby Bill King » Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:00 pm

A WDH hitch if correctly installed, restores the weight to the front wheels of the tow vehicle thereby restoring the best possible braking performance. The 160 kg ball weight would remove around 65 kg from the front wheels of your Cruiser, and while this does not seem significant it can have a very negative effect on braking performance when you need it most especially on wet bitumen and/or gravel roads. In my opinion, and I believe I am correct, sway bars are totally unneccesary if the van is loaded with sufficient weight on the tow ball. Air bags will restore the ride height and nothing more, they will do absolutely nothing to restore weight to the front wheels, therefore will do nothing to restore the lost breaking performance.
Hope you find this of some help.
Bill King.
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Re: WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby Anythingonce » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:09 pm

Bill King wrote:A WDH hitch if correctly installed, restores the weight to the front wheels of the tow vehicle thereby restoring the best possible braking performance.

Air bags will restore the ride height and nothing more, they will do absolutely nothing to restore weight to the front wheels, therefore will do nothing to restore the lost breaking performance.
Hope you find this of some help.
Bill King.


Bill
An analysis of load shift under braking with/without WDH does not support these statements

Scott
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Re: WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby dazby » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:17 pm

Bill King wrote:In my opinion, and I believe I am correct, sway bars are totally unneccesary if the van is loaded with sufficient weight on the tow ball.


Don't forget, it's more than just weight on the towball - you need to make sure the mass is centralised as well. Dont move stuff at or near centre of gravity away from cog, but if possible move stuff that is well to the rear of cog forward of cog instead (like rear tyre carrier to drawbar) The ideal stable van would probably be like a black hole, located about 8-10% of the way between the axle and coupling (ie the mass very tightly clustered in that spot - no heavy things to store rotational energy when things start moving).

I think the reverse is true too - don't move stuff to the very rear of the van to reduce ball weight.
Darren
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Re: WDH Vs Airbags Vs Sway bars Vs Nothing fitted

Postby hotqld » Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:29 pm

I was looking at WDH and anti sway and came across this:
http://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Weight_ ... ution.aspx
Specifically the equal-is-er ...patents pending
http://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribu ... -1000.html

With combined sway and WDH, the anti sway is working on 4 contact points...seemed quite clever
Damm I allready have WDH so will have to settle on anti sway add ons.

From a newbies impression on caravan accidents there appears to be quite a few "Freak" accidents with caravans overturning with WDH but I havnt seen any yet with antisway fitted as well, I am forming a opinion that WDH is only half the system sway control needs to be installed as well especially if your caravan is the same weight or a little more than the tow vechile.
Regards Tony ..
Towing over 2500kg, with safety and stability enhancement in mind:
WDH, Friction sway Bars, Tuson Brake and Electronic Sway Control.
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